Siyanora Rudy, It has been a long ride
by mlev811 on Dec 6, 2008 11:37 PM MST
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PrintI remember the good times and the bad, the ups and downs, the excitement and disappointment, the smack talk and hissy fits. I remember thinking that Rudy would rather be wearing this jersey, and I also remember Rudy Carpenter in the fetal position time and time again. I remember my first memory of Rudy Carpenter. In an un-televised game against Stanford, with ASU down big. Rudy came in and brought us within a touchdown or two from a win. From that point on, it was Rudy's time. The spotlight was on him, and for the following 3 years, that is where it remained. Rudy put in a superb freshman year and earned the title as the most efficient QB in the nation. Since that point, he has been anything but efficient.
We all know the drama of the following summer, so I'll save you the pain. I cringe with every mention of Sam Kkee (Can't say it) throughout TV broadcasts. It is almost as if S** K***** was the monkey on Rudy's back, which he was unable to shake. You would think it wouldn't be difficult to get rid of the damn monkey, considering how many times it should have been squashed as Rudy layed helpless on his back. Nonetheless, unsuccessful. After an abysmal sophomore year which apparently I have blocked out of my mind, Rudy returned as the QB we expected.
With an easy schedule, a new coach, and a talented core of skilled players, Rudy brought us to an 8-0 record. On top of the world, albeit short lived. A crushing loss to USC on Thanksgiving day, a prime time game, brought back memories of Keller vs. USC and the Katrina game. A Disappointment. Sure a 10-3 season looks fantastic on paper, but the brutal defeat from Texas left a black eye on the season.
What follows a 10-3 season? Hopes, dreams, and aspirations. A pre-season ranking, expectations, and responsibility of QB1 to perform. I could reminisce about what we've all experienced over the previous 5 long months. I choose not to. It is over and done with. Something to forget, and nothing to remember.
2008 ASU football. Overrated. Underperformed. Chaotic. A Memory.
What will the legacy of Rudy Carpenter be? Read the line about the 2008 ASU football team.
Here's to looking forward to 2009, perhaps an Olsen-less, Szakacsy led team. GO DEVILS!
And don't forget...we can always brag about ASU girls.
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Rudy
is one of the top 3 or 4 QB’s to ever play at ASU. I just don’t understand the hatred for him.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Statistically...
Yes, statistically Rudy is one of the best QB’s to ever play at ASU. However I think that a good QB leads the team. If you watch a guy like Tim Tebow, he fires up his team. Rudy just heads to the sidelines and doesn’t talk to his teammates. I’m sure if he had an OL, this year would be different and the “hatred” wouldn’t be there. I think its time for a fresh face out there…and hopefully its not Sullivan.
The OL was so terrible this year
Rudy was running for his life playing hurt the whole time.
If he’s not a good leader of the team, then why did the team back Rudy in the Keller fiasco?
Look, I get that ASU has underachieved this year, and probably overachieved last year. But, Rudy deserves credit.
I agree that Sullivan isn’t all that great from what I’ve seen, which is very limited of course. I’m not sure it will matter who the QB is next year though if the OL is terrible again.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 7, 2008 12:41 PM MST up reply actions
Keller fiasco
You are right, THAT team backed Rudy. Most of those players graduated. I’m not saying Rudy was a horrible QB. He was good in 05 and 07 and bad in 06 and 08. He missed a lot of reads and made some bad decisions. Sure the OL can be blamed for making him fear for his life, but thats football.
Let me ask you a question
Do you think this team this year would’ve been better with one of the other QB’s?
Also, what’s the point in bringing him down? I don’t understand the personal attacks against him. I support ASU athletics. I want the team to do well — and Rudy was the best chance for that to happen. It didn’t work out, and it certainly wasn’t his fault.
Being glad his time is done is fine I guess, it’s your opinion. I just disagree with the personal attacks and the references to pink shirts and things like that.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Dirk, it’s all about humor. If we can’t laugh at our team, who can? We need to be able to acknowledge the hilarity of the pink shirt fiasco at the basketball game last season. Not to mention him calling a kid a homo in the parking lot after that game.
Sure, he’s a college QB with decent numbers. But we really need someone with a better attitude under center. Perhaps someone who could run (read: Brock Osweiler?).
by Cory Williams on Dec 7, 2008 3:28 PM MST up reply actions
I don't see any humor in that
I see a personal attack that is completely irrelevant to what happens on the field.
Isn’t Osweiler like 6’8"? I don’t see him being a big running threat. Samson Sczacy (sp?) is the running threat out of all the potential QBs.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Why the pink shirt?
I think if I am going to be 100% behind the QB, he should be 100% behind ASU. Is it too much to ask for him to show a little school pride when at other sporting events. I appreciate the fact that he even goes to the games, and I attempt to understand the pressure he is under. I’m not saying that I hate Rudy Carpenter. Like I said in the article, he had some good years. He had the ups and downs. Unfortunately I have a what have you done for me recently attitude and he ended his career on a downward spiral. And I am trying to have a little fun with the end of the football season. It’s been rough for all involved, so like CW said, lets try to have a little fun. If I offended Rudy, then to him I apologize.
Give me a break
Look, I didn’t want to play this card, but I used to work for the football team. I know Rudy. Your choice if you want to believe me or not.
He supports ASU 100% pink shirt or not. His shirt color has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what happens on the field.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Also -- just because the team backed Rudy...
doesn’t necessarily mean they were RIGHT. I’ve seen enough cryptic posts from message board know-it-alls to realize that there was a lot going on behind the scenes with that whole fiasco that we probably won’t ever know about. But these are a bunch of insulated, emotional 18-22 year old kids in a giant bubble that most of us will never experience or understand, I hardly think their judgement is infallible. Many of his numbers are the result more of longevity moreso than excellence. Not that there isn’t value and skill and toughness involved in suiting up and showing up week after week, especially considering the merciless pounding that he took under center. But if you start 43 games in a row in a pass first offense, you’re probably going to put up some pretty good numbers.
I don’t think he’s the worst QB to ever play for ASU, far from it. But he’s far from the best, either, regardless of how the record books will read. Would you take him over Jake Plummer? Danny White? Andrew Walter? What about Ryan Kealy or Jeff Van Raaphorst or Paul Justin or Mark Malone or Dennis Sproul? Sorry, but in the grand scheme of things I don’t think that history will ultimately look back with great fondness on the Rudy Carpenter era.
He's one of the only QB's in ASU history
to go to 3 straight bowls. 3-1 vs uofa. Holds alot of ASU passing records.
I’m not saying he’s the best — I’m saying he’s ONE of the best — and if we hadn’t had him the last few years we would not have been as successful as we were.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
You think
this offense has been pass first the last couple of years? C’mon — don’t be lazy. Koetter has been gone for 2 seasons now.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Sorry, Rudy sucks.
The guy has regressed as the talent around him has regressed. Just because he is one of the top “3-4” qbs ever at ASU – SO WHAT??
We have not had some group of stellar QBs. We’ve had Jake Plummer and Andrew Walter. Those are the only two notable players we have ever had. And Rudy has had so many starts how could he NOT have records at our schoool?
The guy is immature, prone to mistakes, horrible in big games, can’t read defenses, and crumbles under pressure.
It is fun watching him throw for 300+ yards against the San Jose State’s of the world – but be realistic.
The guy will not be missed, and I could just as easily make the argument that last year was successful due to the running game which helped set up the pass. Also a weak schedule, lots of home games, a new scheme that defenses had not seen before…
He had a solid run, but he is going out on a horrible note and our preseason #15 football team is now 5-7 in large part to Rudy. You can only make so many excuses for the guy. He was the most experienced QB in college football. When he gets 2-3 seconds in the pocket and he gets sacked or throws an INT, it is not the line, it is his inability to make reads.
House of Sparky - www.houseofsparky.com - Go Sun Devils
Agree to disagree I suppose
I think your take there is about as harsh as it can possibly get.
You give this team a legit line and he looks alot better.
2-3 seconds isn’t very long when the WRs can’t get open.
Look, I’m all about ASU getting better. I just think that if people can’t appreciate the run Rudy had here — people are not going to be happy unless we have a Rose Bowl/National Champ. type run. I’m not saying we should accept mediocrity — I’m saying that we’re not a legit top tier school yet — and it takes quite a bit to get to that level.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Agree
I agree with Dirk, that with a decent line, Rudy would’ve led us to a much better season. Line=Running game=Passing game. Put Bradford, Harrell, or McCoy with our offensive line, and we are probably barely making a bowl game. He did struggle making reads on the defense and adapting to the defensive alignment. I agree that we are not a legit top tier school yet. I put us in a list with teams like Illinois, Clemson, Pitt, Michigan State. Teams that every few years end up with a top 25 team. Many times these teams are overrated.
Are you kidding? If we had Braford or McCoy we are easily 3 wins better.
House of Sparky - www.houseofsparky.com - Go Sun Devils
well, we won 5..so 3 wins would make it 8.
And oregon state is the second best team in the conference. With those guys we beat Cal, UNLV, Oregon. Maybe Oregon state.
House of Sparky - www.houseofsparky.com - Go Sun Devils
Thing is though, they often were open and Rudy couldn't find them.
Because they weren’t his first read – who he typically just stares down.
He had plenty of time, and plenty of time much of the year. He was sacked 34 times. That is the second lowest of his career, and if he had played all of his freshman year, it probably would have been the lowest. His line was pretty solid in pass pro all year, and that is impressive when there is no running game.
The kid was fine, but he can take his place behind Plummer, White, and Walter in the pantheon of ASU qbs. He had a solid career, took us to a Sun bowl and Insight.com bowl and won those, got blown out in the Holiday bowl, beat U of A a few times, and lost to nearly every ranked opponent we played and lost nearly all of his road games.
He was always mediocre. As the talent around him faded and more youth was forced on to the field his weaknesses were further exposed.
We can say, “hey, thanks for the memories” but what is there to celebrate? I am not sure what you want, if you are not saying we should accept mediocrity, then what else is there to say other than Rudy went out on a low note, and we are looking forward to the future.
House of Sparky - www.houseofsparky.com - Go Sun Devils
Well I did say
Top 3 or 4 QBs to ever play at ASU — so it looks like you agree with me.
You give the negative spin — I give the positive spin. We can watch the same games and come away with different takes — it’s fine.
We can say, "hey, thanks for the memories" but what is there to celebrate? I am not sure what you want, if you are not saying we should accept mediocrity, then what else is there to say other than Rudy went out on a low note, and we are looking forward to the future.
I guess my whole thing is there’s no reason to bag on the guy with lines like these:
I remember thinking that Rudy would rather be wearing this jersey, and I also remember Rudy Carpenter in the fetal position time and time again.
You would think it wouldn’t be difficult to get rid of the damn monkey, considering how many times it should have been squashed as Rudy layed helpless on his back.
I think those 2 quotes are classless and completely unnecessary. I guess it drives traffic on your blog or something, I don’t know.
Rudy didn’t take ASU to the Sun Bowl btw – that was the 2004 season when he was redshirting. That was AW most of the way and then Keller played the last half of the uofa game and the Sun Bowl.
You also listed just about every shortcoming this team has faced in the last 4 years and you pretty much place the blame on him — which is ridiculous. I mean, it’s absolutely ridiculous. You don’t go out and lead the nation in passer rating as a freshman if you are “always mediocre.” Koetter ripped that team apart and had horrible recruiting classes. That contributed to this decline more than anything. I’m not saying Rudy is without fault — but there are many things that have contributed to ASU being mediocre the last 3-4 years that had nothing to do with Carpenter.
Look, it’s one thing to be glad to move on and “look forward to the future.” It’s another to needlessly bag on a guy that went out there for 40 something straight starts and largely took a beating — whether that was his fault or not. He didn’t give up — and he absolutely wanted to win every game he was ever a part of — if you don’t realize that then you obviously do not know anything about his personality.
I took am glad to look toward the future because I have faith that Erickson can recruit — so let’s see it happen — and if it doesn’t, we can all have a new scapegoat to pile on. Lets just hope Erickson isn’t wearing a pink shirt when he gets his next DUI.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
I too*
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
My comment a little out of text
Saying that he was in the fetal position, I simply meant sacked on the ground. And in reference to the pink jersey, he likes pink. I’m really not attacking him, i’m just summarizing how his career went, and what I remember. And that is a lot of sacks because of an awful OL.
Ha, right
The fetal position comment was clearly for shock value. But, I’ve said my piece on the subject — carry on.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Yeah, I didnt write this piece number one.
And number two, never did I “list every shortcoming this team has faced in the last 4 years and pretty much place the blame on him”.
I placed blame for things that were his fault. IE – playing in big games and turning the ball over. His worst two games of the year last year? USC and Texas. Lowest QB ratings of the year for him. You can’t really reference his freshman year either because he has never come close to putting up numbers like that again, and a lot of it was due to the team around him that Koetter put on the field, and the offense that Koetter ran.
Derek Hagan and Zach Miller were on the team. Two first day of the NFL draft quality players.
It is not a coincidence that once they left, Rudy suddenly saw his stats drop precipitiously.
And stop harping on the pink shirt – Rudy is a known douche bag around campus, he acts like a tool bag – we go to ASU after all. We can rip on him for wearing pink, and we can rip on Dennis erickson for getting DUIs and losing his way out of the NFL.
No one is needlessly bagging on the guy, and I never once said he gave up. But big deal. Joey Harrington never “gave up” in the pros.. does that mean we should champion his NFL career because he was a nice guy, worked hard, never gave up.. blah blah blah? No. We are a sports blog, and Rudy sucked this year, end of story.
The line is the real scapegoat here. Everyone wants to blame them. It is RUDY. They lost a stud in Pollak – 2nd round pick – and had a freakin’ DT playing LT. And cut the sacks on Rudy almost in half. That is amazing. Yet still they get harped on because Rudy holds onto the damn ball so long. If Erickson had another QB he was comfortable going to, he would have done it. But it would have been disasterous for the locker room – because that is basically admitting the season is lost – and Rudy would have caused a huge stink, like when he threatened to transfer if he did not get to play over Sam Keller.
And you’re right – one less feather in his cap. He took us to the Hawaii bowl and got stomped by Hawaii., putting up a measly 100 QB rating (not good in college, one of the worst in the nation actually. You need about 130 to be in the top 50) despite Ryan Torain rushing for 160 yards. Ugh.
House of Sparky - www.houseofsparky.com - Go Sun Devils
I never said you wrote the first piece
Also it is quite clear we will never agree. Sure, you can
bag on him for all those things, but I don’t think it’s the right thing to do.
I do find it funny that Plummer is hailed as a god for that Rose Bowl team — but he was playing with all kinds of NFL talent. But, then Rudy’s great freshman year is torn down in 2 seconds because of 2 guys that he played with. Which is it? Is it the talent around the QB, or is it the QB himself? You can’t have it both ways.
Given the options this team had — he was the best choice by far the last couple of years. You’ve said yourself that he’s probably the 4th best QB in ASU’s history. That’s not exactly dogshit or anything.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
Plummer's team...
beat people. They beat the #1 team in the country. He also had 0, yes 0, first day NFL drafted talent on his team on the offensive side of the ball. His production was not propped up, he propped up other people. Keith Poole? NOt good.
And I am not having it both ways, it is a simple argument.
And 4th best statistically, yes. But who cares? Mike Pagel could even be better, never saw him, just know he threw for over 30 TDs in a season. Rudy played a ton of games, and didn’t approach some lame QBs like Walter in terms of stats. We aren’t exactly a QB developmental powerhouse. Our top 3 is pretty weak. Never had a first round QB, never had anyone become a legit starter aside from Plummer. Its not great company to be 4th in. Not really the same as being the 4th best at USC. So, no, he is not dogshit, but you won’t find me praising him, or mourning his graduation.
He is what he is. A middling recruit who inherited a great system with some talent, flashed some things as a freshman, then regressed throughout the rest of his college career, culminating in a highly disappointing senior season. There is no reason for him to play this poorly when the one thing “holding him back” last year were sacks, and those were largely fixed.
House of Sparky - www.houseofsparky.com - Go Sun Devils
Alright
it’s clear we will never agree. I think this has run its course.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Dec 9, 2008 12:21 PM MST up reply actions
Dirk, thanks for your contributions to the site. The debates you have stirred in recent weeks have been welcome additions, and I’d love to see it continue.
by Cory Williams on Dec 9, 2008 12:35 PM MST up reply actions
The offense
I agree, the offense has not been pass first. Last year was definitely all about the run, which led to the passing game. This year, we had no identity. Our best O was the D.
Did we just rip on Walter?
Andrew Walter was a hell of a Sun Devils QB. Now if I were a Raider fan, I’d have something to complain about.
Not as a Sun Devil QB, he had nice stats. As a QB in general.
He is just really bad. Haha. 3 tds versus 16 int.
House of Sparky - www.houseofsparky.com - Go Sun Devils
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